Map Chat III

This is the third edition of my Map Chat series, where we analyse base play in hypothetical scenarios. If you haven’t seen the previous editions, you can find Map Chat I here and Map Chat II here. This is the last scenario for these reviewers. If you want to be included in a future edition, let me know.

This time we’re looking at a standard 2v3 at Blue base in Xtreme (North Shore in New Zealand). This maze has been around for a while, but we recently redesigned the bases to get a competitive league going. This is the first scenario in a base that I haven’t played in.

Three defence verses two attack is one of the most common scenarios in the game. In most mazes the top teams can keep the base count pretty close to zero in this scenario. The attackers generally need to force the defensive team to make a mistake. I put the defenders in what looks like a fairly standard setup with one in the base, and one outside at each door. The normal way to play against this is to duel the guys on the outside and either come in at the same time or try to beat the under player 1v1 somehow. What I’m looking for from the reviewers is the little additions you can add to this basic strategy to improve the odds for each side.

Question 1: who has the advantage?

Xeta (Joel from Dunedin, C player, has not played this maze): Blue

Puzzles (Margie’s little sister, E player, has not played this maze): Blue

Mumin (Top tier Swede from Feydakin, A player, has not played this maze): Blue

Ibo (Maroon, famous zone caster A player, has not played this maze): Blue

vDark (Cobras, A player, has played this maze): It is unlikely that Blue’s base will go down in this scenario.

Question 2: What should blue do?

Xeta: Player C should take out player B

Summary: Aggressive play from the player inside the base. Based on the map this looks like a decent play, but according to people who’ve played there, it apparently doesn’t work very well (the walls are slightly different to the map). vDark (who plays there weekly) told me “this is the perfect example of a greedy play that will cost you a base”. Sorry Joel.

Mumin: C should kill B. It takes a second to get in position. The double behind the wall doesn’t change much. C will have plenty of time to get back inside.

Summary: Same as Xeta. I do think based on the map this looks like a good play but sometimes things don’t play out the same on the map as they do in the maze.

Puzzles: They should all hold position, with D stalking A, but not in a creepy way.

Summary: If A and D continue to double, then it’s essentially a 2v1. B can’t approach either door without getting hit. D can follow A anywhere, since he doesn’t need to worry about crossfire while he’s down and they will spawn at the same time. “Keep the double” is pretty good advice for defenders in a 2v3 scenario.

Ibo: Hold the exact positions. If high in lives, D should sit on A and try to continue to double.

Summary: I love that Ibo pointed out that lives/power is important here. Continuing to double is usually pretty good for the defenders but having to reload at the wrong time can cost you a base. When you’re already in a strong position, it’s these little optimisations that take you from a strong defence to an unbreakable defence.

vDark: D should call B‘s movements. The other two players hold their positions. If B moves towards the door C is covering, E can move to look through the base. B cannot approach E in her current position without being deactivated. Towards the second half of their deactivation time, if the situation is still fairly static, D should move back to the wall by the reload which will cover both red players. This will force the attackers to move backward to counter. Summary: The addition of pulling back before respawning to force the red players to chase is great. This is still the same basic strategy of holding these positions, with the addition of pulling red away from the doors, which will further strengthen Blue’s already strong position. Using the deactive player to keep an eye on the active player is also a nice touch.

What can we learn from all this?

Nothing beats experience: You can (and should!) plan a ton of stuff from the maze map without ever having stepped in the maze before, but you can never guarantee that what looks good on paper will work in real life. When you arrive at a new maze, one of the first things you should do is test your assumptions.

Managing your reloads is important: Let’s imagine this double stalemate happened for a full twelve minute game (it could happen on Helios!). Both the doubling players will reload approximately once per minute. About half of the time the defender can just reload with the attacker. The other half will result in base attempts. If half of those attempts are successful, that could be as many as three bases lost over twelve minutes from a strong position, just from neglecting power management.

You can always improve your position: This set up is already pretty strong for the defence, but there are always ways to squeeze out more of an advantage. Virtually every base in 2v3 is preventable, so unless you can reliably keep it down to zero in this scenario, there’s probably more things you could be doing to make things difficult for the attackers.

Question 3: What should red do?

Xeta: If they have to do something, they should try to go for C. Summary: Just try and break the door without worrying about the setup on the other side. Puzzles: A should try to win the next double. B should try to break C. This would probably be easier since there is less distance and C would be unaware of them coming if D doesn’t notice. They can then take the base, while watching back for E. Summary: Break front then take and watch for E. If the front break is successful this should work, E will be out of position. This is the same approach as Xeta. The effectiveness of this strategy depends on how reliable the break is, and how quickly E can react.

Mumin: This base is tougher. Probably we would try and duel the blue on the outside down and both go in once we both are alive.

Summary: I’m not sure if he meant duel both blue players then go in both doors, or just 2v1 the guy who is doubled then both go in the same door. Remember that Mumin plays on Nexus timing (active player advantage) and Worlds timing (slow fire). Nexus timing means that the active red player should normally be able to break his ally out of the double cycle on the first try. The slow fire means that both coming in the same door will normally work. I believe on these settings this is possibly the best break (because it can be set up so quickly) and will work every time if E doesn’t do something to counter it.

Ibo: Red’s goal is to get both players alive and at different doors at the same time. The internal defender is useless then. If they try to come through one door together, the internal defender should be able to get them both, even if D and E are deactivated. Red can achieve a few ways, depending on the skill level of the defenders. If they are much better they could just duel 1v1 until they both win (so long as they position themselves so that the inside defender can’t tag them easily if they win their standoff). Summary: Make it a 2v2 outside by duelling the outside defenders, then 2v1 inside if/when both attackers win their duels at the same time. This is one of the core concepts to defeating this style of defence. The defenders can counter this by trying to get some value out of the under players in duels. For example, trying to duel in the open where the under player can see them. It becomes a game between the attackers and defenders trying to force duels into the optimum spot for each side. Ibo also points out that if you are much better duelists this can work pretty quickly. This is one of the ways good duelists can bully otherwise solid defences. In high level games (especially on Helios) it can take a long time to win two spawns simultaneously.

vDark: Red need to play this situation fast and try force blue to make an error. Some ways they could get a base are: B runs towards A‘s door. When it’s called, E moves to cover across, and then B quickly switches doors and catches E out of position. Once E is deactive, it would depend what timing system you were playing what you would do next: On Worlds Helios or Nexus, B could all but guarantee that he can help A win the spawn against D. Once they were both active, they could break the door together, or take out E before taking the door together if enough time has elapsed. They would then get the base. On ZLTAC Helios, there is no point in trying to assist with a double, the result will most likely not change. B would have the best chance of getting the base if they made a play on C under the base. They could either switch again or keep running towards the door they were already moving to, and hope to beat C under the base. Then all they have to do is be covered from D while they take. This should be easy with calls from A. Summary: The key concept here is the idea of forcing a mistake from the defenders. The actual breaks are pretty standard and are mentioned in other answers. In 2v3, every base can be tracked back to a mistake by the defenders, so if you are on attack you need to make them make a mistake. This is why high speed works well on attack – even though there is normally a counter for everything you do, it’s possible to switch between attack configurations faster than the defence can keep up.

What can we learn from all this?

Try to create a numbers advantage: When you are outnumbered, the best thing you can do is try to make one or more of the other team irrelevant. Instead of trying to win a 2v3, try to create three separate 2v1s.

Everyone makes mistakes: The defenders have to do something wrong to give up a base in 2v3, but even at the top level we see bases going down in 2v3. Why is this? Because perfect defence is only theoretical. If you know in advance what the likely mistakes at a base are, this gives you the opportunity to create and exploit these faster than the defence can keep up.

Next time

This was the last set of reviews I collected from these reviewers so this will be the last edition for a little while. I plan to do more in the future so if anyone would be interested in participating, please let me know. Massive thanks to everyone who contributed.

“All comms are important, but probably none more so than when defending a base. A strong defence allows your team to be flexible and control the pace of the game”

Danny "Popeyes" Smith

Popeyes has been playing laser tag for over a decade and is heavily involved behind the scenes.